Honest Johns

  • June 22, 2017, 08:22:34 PM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 22   Go Down

Author Topic: G.R.R.M.  (Read 25356 times)

Pugs First Apprentice

  • Straggler
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 481
    • http://
G.R.R.M.
« Reply #40 on: September 29, 2004, 02:07:00 AM »

Im pretty suremy dead grandmother could write the forth book faster   :elf_smile:
Logged
Please believe me when i say, this is how it has to be
This is easy on us all, well easier then other ways
Sleep is all i ask of you, sleep and not to wake again
See this through and leave my friends, tears will come and i will end.

henwas

  • Journeyer
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12
    • http://
G.R.R.M.
« Reply #41 on: September 29, 2004, 06:45:36 AM »

And if I wanted to know how to make a mean bread and butter pudding, I would buy your dead grandmothers book :king:
Logged

Miranda

  • Rover
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 279
    • http://
G.R.R.M.
« Reply #42 on: October 01, 2004, 10:18:53 AM »

Just a question to you: My version of book three has two parts. Is that common or do I had the 'luck' to buy the two book version?
Logged
[span style=\'color:blue\'][span style=\'font-size:13pt;line-height:100%\']Winter ist coming[/span][/span]

Pugs First Apprentice

  • Straggler
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 481
    • http://
G.R.R.M.
« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2004, 10:33:38 AM »

Its common now Miranda. Once upon a time authors were not so greedy. but now their hearts andminds are totally controlled by their publishers. And publishers like money as much as the authors. Hence the one book that usually costs say $20 in paperback over here instead issold as two books retailing for a total of $40. It blows big time.

You can have that book henwas but i need to warn you, it comes in two parts, so you have to get both of them if you want to make any sence of her ramblings :elf_smile:
Logged
Please believe me when i say, this is how it has to be
This is easy on us all, well easier then other ways
Sleep is all i ask of you, sleep and not to wake again
See this through and leave my friends, tears will come and i will end.

Miranda

  • Rover
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 279
    • http://
G.R.R.M.
« Reply #44 on: October 01, 2004, 10:49:25 AM »

I have bought it already and was wondering about having it in two parts. Therefor I asked. I'm in the middle of ACOK and It's oo damn exciting :-)
Logged
[span style=\'color:blue\'][span style=\'font-size:13pt;line-height:100%\']Winter ist coming[/span][/span]

Jimmy the Hand

  • Ranger
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
    • http://
G.R.R.M.
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2004, 03:13:10 AM »

Quote
G.R.R.M is great...im a huge fan...its even harder reading him a second time. This time im dreading the aweful stuff that surprised me last time. I dont want to get attached to certain characters who wont be with us for much longer. Its hard but i think im managing ;)

Interesting title of the series. A song of Ice and Fire. Theoetically only two of the Great Houses contain blood of the first men. Although im no tto sure the Blood of the Dragon is the blood of the First Men is it? Anyway to me the Ice and Fire refer to the Blood of the Starks and the Dragon Kings/Queens (Cant spell their last names;) ) I cant wait untill the moment The Blood of the Fire meets the Blood of Ice. Should be an interesting confrontation :D
[snapback]3463[/snapback]

I never had any idea as to what "A Song of Ice and Fire" referred to until I re-re-re-read the series thus far.  In my mind, it refers to the inevitable battle between
Spoiler: show
Melisandre's Red God, portraying Fire, and the Others, portraying Ice


Just a thought.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2004, 03:14:28 AM by Jimmy the Hand »
Logged

Pugs First Apprentice

  • Straggler
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 481
    • http://
G.R.R.M.
« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2004, 09:29:52 AM »

Hmm interesting thought, and it would definantly have some credence considering the ending of A Storm of Swords. But perhaps both our theories are too basic considering the other important storylines. What i mean is that the SPOILER [span style=\'color:white\'] return of the dragons is a huge event in the books[/span]. It would seem strange that it is not linked in some way to the title of the series.

Perhaps we are looking at it the wrong way. Perhaps their isnt a confrontation between fire and ice at all. The religion of the Red God always seemed an evil one to me. and the others are certainly evil. Meanwhile i dont see the Dragon Queen Deanries as an evil character and the Starks certainly arnt evil. Perhaps the title of the series refers to an interplay betwenn these groups.

So many questions, so few new books to answer them ;)
Logged
Please believe me when i say, this is how it has to be
This is easy on us all, well easier then other ways
Sleep is all i ask of you, sleep and not to wake again
See this through and leave my friends, tears will come and i will end.

Jimmy the Hand

  • Ranger
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
    • http://
G.R.R.M.
« Reply #47 on: October 02, 2004, 11:46:41 AM »

Quote
Hmm interesting thought, and it would definantly have some credence considering the ending of A Storm of Swords. But perhaps both our theories are too basic considering the other important storylines. What i mean is that the SPOILER [span style=\'color:white\'] return of the dragons is a huge event in the books[/span]. It would seem strange that it is not linked in some way to the title of the series.

Perhaps we are looking at it the wrong way. Perhaps their isnt a confrontation between fire and ice at all. The religion of the Red God always seemed an evil one to me. and the others are certainly evil. Meanwhile i dont see the Dragon Queen Deanries as an evil character and the Starks certainly arnt evil. Perhaps the title of the series refers to an interplay betwenn these groups.

So many questions, so few new books to answer them ;)
[snapback]7359[/snapback]

The Starks aren't evil?  You're obviously not a Lannister.  Sure, the Lannister's tie to the throne was marred by incest, but Robb Stark was a traitor, right?  More, if his little brother hadn't peeked in a certain window like the pervert he was, the whole war would've been prevented and the Lannisters could rule in peace.

Every time I read the books again, I gain another perspective on the big picture.  Alright, so perhaps I'm slow.

There's a preview of A Feast for Crows available from George R.R. Martin's website, but I'll be damned if I'm going to read it.
Logged

Miranda

  • Rover
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 279
    • http://
G.R.R.M.
« Reply #48 on: October 02, 2004, 01:25:12 PM »

Quote
The Starks aren't evil?  You're obviously not a Lannister.  Sure, the Lannister's tie to the throne was marred by incest, but Robb Stark was a traitor, right?  More, if his little brother hadn't peeked in a certain window like the pervert he was, the whole war would've been prevented and the Lannisters could rule in peace.

Every time I read the books again, I gain another perspective on the big picture.  Alright, so perhaps I'm slow.

There's a preview of A Feast for Crows available from George R.R. Martin's website, but I'll be damned if I'm going to read it.
[snapback]7369[/snapback]
I am not as far in the story as I hoped for but let me ask this:
Spoiler: show
Isn't Cersei's and Jaime's  betrayal the reason for the war? If Jaime hadn't slept with his sister and fathered those kids there wouldn't have been a reason for Stannis to investigate and tell Jon Arryn about his suspects. Pyrcell wouldn't have had a reason to kill him and Eddard would not have become Hand of the King - only to investigate the reasons for Jon Arryns death. The downward spiral of murder and betrayal would not have been started...

BTW. a boy of eight is curious but not pervert. What would you have done if you were a boy of eight, climbing around just for fun, knowing it's forbidden to do so and then hear talking? You'd have been curious and afraid as well. I certaily would have been... and I'm far away from being pervert (whatever you exactly mean by that...)
Logged
[span style=\'color:blue\'][span style=\'font-size:13pt;line-height:100%\']Winter ist coming[/span][/span]

Jimmy the Hand

  • Ranger
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
    • http://
G.R.R.M.
« Reply #49 on: October 03, 2004, 06:43:23 AM »

Quote
I am not as far in the story as I hoped for but let me ask this:
Spoiler: show
Isn't Cersei's and Jaime's  betrayal the reason for the war? If Jaime hadn't slept with his sister and fathered those kids there wouldn't have been a reason for Stannis to investigate and tell Jon Arryn about his suspects. Pyrcell wouldn't have had a reason to kill him and Eddard would not have become Hand of the King - only to investigate the reasons for Jon Arryns death. The downward spiral of murder and betrayal would not have been started...

BTW. a boy of eight is curious but not pervert. What would you have done if you were a boy of eight, climbing around just for fun, knowing it's forbidden to do so and then hear talking? You'd have been curious and afraid as well. I certaily would have been... and I'm far away from being pervert (whatever you exactly mean by that...)

[snapback]7377[/snapback]

Pugs First Apprentice made the statement "The Starks aren't evil."  I was merely pointing out that "The Starks aren't evil" is a belief, and an opinion, but not necessarily fact.  I was trying to get people to see the story from other perspectives, which I think may be part of the reason for the chapters being told by different characters, with the constant backtracking and paralleling storylines.

What would Cersei have thought about Bran peeking in on her and Jaime's little meeting?  

What would you think of a neighborhood boy peeking in your bedroom window, dozens of feet above the ground?

As to the war?  
Spoiler: show
Imagine Bran hadn't peeked in the window?  He wouldn't have been pushed off the wall; there would've been no need for an assassination attempt; Catelyn would never have needed to take Tyrion hostage, as she believed him responsible for the attack.  Eddard and Stannis would continue their separate investigations, perhaps Tyrion may still have launched his own...Robert would still likely die, but I think Jaime and Cersei would have been found out, and overall, less blood would be shed.  Ultimately, though, things may or may not have spiralled to the same degree of chaos.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2004, 06:45:15 AM by Jimmy the Hand »
Logged

Miranda

  • Rover
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 279
    • http://
G.R.R.M.
« Reply #50 on: October 03, 2004, 10:43:23 AM »

Jimmy, how often have you read the books up til now? I am reading them the first time and maybe I'm not able at this point of time to look  at the story from different perspectives. You've got a point there for sure.  But  I have a problem thinking of an eight year old boy the way you seem to urge us.
Spoiler: show

Cersei might have felt guilty being caught cheating her husband with her brother which was a big sin.
Actually, I wouldn't act that way when a boy peekes into my bedroom window. But I don't have something to hide...
 
The future can take so many different courses we cannot say what exactly would have happened if Jaime hadn't let Bran drop down. But I still think Cerseis and Jaime's incest  is one huge key to the door that leeds into bloody chaos.

BTW: If we look at the story from Danaerys perspective, everyone is a traitor, not only Robb.  


And to the point of being good or evil: For a Lannister, a Stark might be evil cause they are standing between them and the throne. For me as a first-reader it seem like the Starks represent honor, loyality, justice and a lot of other positive qualities. Besides the fact that the story is based in a rough time where death is a common punishment  the Starks act not as cruel as the Lannisters do. I mean look at Joffrey... or Gregor Clegane. Or think about how Tyrion spins his net. The life of his own cousin isn't worth a lot. He uses him as a spy, knowing he'll die anyway either through Cersei or Jaimy or on his command.  Up til now I haven't read such thoughts at a Stark.


But  maybe you've got another perspective for me, I do like this kind of discussion. But please do not tell any further than this
Spoiler: show
the last thing I 've read was the death of Renly.
Logged
[span style=\'color:blue\'][span style=\'font-size:13pt;line-height:100%\']Winter ist coming[/span][/span]

Jimmy the Hand

  • Ranger
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
    • http://
G.R.R.M.
« Reply #51 on: October 03, 2004, 11:05:23 AM »

I've read the series thus far a few times, but not near enough.

Logged

coeshaw

  • World Nomad
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5.888
    • http://www.hallofworlds.net/
G.R.R.M.
« Reply #52 on: October 03, 2004, 11:14:56 AM »

The GRRM offical website has been update but still no new news about AFFC release date. http://www.georgerrmartin.com/
Logged
"Paul, your shoe is on FIRE" Coe to Thant @ Hall Meet 2006

Pugs First Apprentice

  • Straggler
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 481
    • http://
G.R.R.M.
« Reply #53 on: October 04, 2004, 11:16:13 AM »

I am totally agreeing with Miranda on this occasion. Lets see if i can get all my thoughts in order without everything sounding crazy

SPOILERS ( i think)
[span style=\'color:white\']

In a way you could say the Starks betrayed the last dragon king when they rose up against him. But we must remember this is the king that killed children and ordered the rap of Eddard Starks sister. He wasnt fit to rule and hence shouldnt have been. I dont care what perspective i look at this history from, Aerys (or what ever his name was) was an evil man and deserved to be overthrown.

However Prince Rheagars daughter didnt deserve to die. She was a Babey. She was murdered cold hearteedly by Jaimie Lannister. Thats just a side note.

As for the Case of the war, well i have no doubt it can be laid at the feet of the Lannisters. There is no way in hell that Bran being a "pervet" was the cause of this. He was doing what he usually did, climbing the walls of Winterfell. But that wasnt the event that started off the wear.It was the Lannister betrayal of the Crown that started the war, the Lanister betrayal by the incest between Jaimie and Cersie.

John Aryne was murdered out of cold blood because he discovered that Cersies children were not Roberts. This led to Neds investigation which inturn led to Ned finding out which inturn lead to his Beheading. The death of Ned Stark was the trigger that blew up the Kingdom.

Then we must remember that Cersie also had Robert the King murdered, even f it was indirectly.

I can in no way see the Lanisters as not being evil, and if not evil, very very very dark. The Starks have acted with Honour. They have been manipulated by the Souths political games and as such have paid a horrible price.

I have looked at the story from different perspectives Jimmy, but i cant find any apathy for the way the Lannisters have acted. And you cannot possibly tell me there is any justification for throwing a boy of 8 of a huge tower.

[/span]


I think most of that came out right :)
Logged
Please believe me when i say, this is how it has to be
This is easy on us all, well easier then other ways
Sleep is all i ask of you, sleep and not to wake again
See this through and leave my friends, tears will come and i will end.

Miranda

  • Rover
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 279
    • http://
G.R.R.M.
« Reply #54 on: October 04, 2004, 12:47:01 PM »

Seems like my views aren't too uncommon *wipes sweat from forehead*  :elfgirl_smile:
Logged
[span style=\'color:blue\'][span style=\'font-size:13pt;line-height:100%\']Winter ist coming[/span][/span]

Jimmy the Hand

  • Ranger
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
    • http://
G.R.R.M.
« Reply #55 on: October 04, 2004, 01:05:55 PM »

Quote
I am totally agreeing with Miranda on this occasion. Lets see if i can get all my thoughts in order without everything sounding crazy

SPOILERS ( i think)
[span style=\'color:white\']

In a way you could say the Starks betrayed the last dragon king when they rose up against him. But we must remember this is the king that killed children and ordered the rap of Eddard Starks sister. He wasnt fit to rule and hence shouldnt have been. I dont care what perspective i look at this history from, Aerys (or what ever his name was) was an evil man and deserved to be overthrown.

However Prince Rheagars daughter didnt deserve to die. She was a Babey. She was murdered cold hearteedly by Jaimie Lannister. Thats just a side note.

As for the Case of the war, well i have no doubt it can be laid at the feet of the Lannisters. There is no way in hell that Bran being a "pervet" was the cause of this. He was doing what he usually did, climbing the walls of Winterfell. But that wasnt the event that started off the wear.It was the Lannister betrayal of the Crown that started the war, the Lanister betrayal by the incest between Jaimie and Cersie.

John Aryne was murdered out of cold blood because he discovered that Cersies children were not Roberts. This led to Neds investigation which inturn led to Ned finding out which inturn lead to his Beheading. The death of Ned Stark was the trigger that blew up the Kingdom.

Then we must remember that Cersie also had Robert the King murdered, even f it was indirectly.

I can in no way see the Lanisters as not being evil, and if not evil, very very very dark. The Starks have acted with Honour. They have been manipulated by the Souths political games and as such have paid a horrible price.

I have looked at the story from different perspectives Jimmy, but i cant find any apathy for the way the Lannisters have acted. And you cannot possibly tell me there is any justification for throwing a boy of 8 of a huge tower.

[/span]
I think most of that came out right :)
[snapback]7574[/snapback]

Spoiler: show


Were Prince Rheagar's wife and infant daughter not murdered by The Mountain, Sandor Clegane?  That's why the Martells wanted his head.  Jaime Lannister murdered King Aerys Targaryen, who you agree needed to be removed from the throne.  (And Jaime's now learning honor.)

From Cersei's perspective, the Starks are a family of meddling honor-bound fools that are attempting to remove her son, and herself, from power.  Eddard, with his snooping around into the true father of Cersei's children.  Bran, with his Peeping Tom routine.

Cersei and Jaime had their own justification, as public knowledge of their incestual relationship would have doomed them and House Lannister.  Personal survival is not a justification?

All Cersei wanted was to see her son take the throne, and rule with the aid of his mother's wisdom.  Any opposition to that desire could be seen as no less than evil.

The Starks?  Not exactly goody two-shoes themselves.  Sure, almost angelic compared to the Lannisters, but the Starks have their own demons.  Eddard's honor?  Tainted by Jon Snow.  Robb's honor?

Where was Robb Stark's honor to House Frey? He was betrothed to a relative of the Late Walder Frey, and what does he do?  Robb decides instead to take a Westerling as his bride.  Where's the honor in that?

Now, Cersei was systematically murdering (or rather, having them murdered) everyone that was investigating into who the real father of her children was.  Jon Arryn, Eddard Stark...we'll never know if she might have got to Stannis as well.  She would have rejoiced in killing Tyrion, I'm sure.  If Bran hadn't witnessed Jaime and Cersei, and had never been thrown off the wall, there would have been no need for the assassination attempt upon him, which gave the war a big push.  Damn Catelyn Stark and her meddling.  

Perhaps I was a bit jumpy in saying the whole war would've been prevented, but I think Cersei was cunning and manipulative enough to ensure Eddard had been sent away, where his voice would not be heard, or killed in a manner as discretely as Arryn and Robert.  The public beheading?  Joffrey was always a little headstrong.

Things would have taken a different path if Bran hadn't looked in the window.  Just ask Cersei.

Logged

Pugs First Apprentice

  • Straggler
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 481
    • http://
G.R.R.M.
« Reply #56 on: October 14, 2004, 08:25:00 AM »

What storyline are you guys most looking foward to in the next book? The last one left us with so many delicious open stories after all!

SPOILERS

[span style=\'color:white\']
Personally im looking foward to the John/Stanis/Wildlings/Others storyline the most. We left that story at a very interesting point. Jon being on the verge of trying to raise the banners of the North under him but instead keeping his oaths to the nightwatch. Should be interesting to see how that plays out.

But theres also Brans Storyline. I dont think it was ever confirmed but is Coldhands Benjen Stark? The guy that the Reeds and Bran left with to search for the three eyed crow?

Tyrions finally killed his dad. What dos the world hold for him now? Should be interesting to find out.

Im still not into Sansa's storyline but its good to see her starting to grow into her North Blood. I hope that continues in the rest of the books.

Aryas left the Hound and is by herself. I dont personally think the Hound is dead, but i could be wrong.

Deanrys storyline has lost a bit of interest to me. Letting her dragons grow and falling for the absolutley wrong men. Ser Jorah betrayed her but i dont think he deserved his punishment. But i guess he was guilty of crime twice now. But anyway this storyline has lost a bit of puff in my opinion. One interesting part of this story is the possibility she might bump into Arya. was it still up in the air wether or not ayra was going to the Wall or the Free Cities? Or did her coin get her automatic passage wherever she wanted?

Another question....is Ser Davos, the Onion knight and the Kings Hand dead? I cant remember if it was mentioned, i seem to recall one chapter ending with him spiriting Edric Storm away then i cant remember him being mentioned.

Plenty of other storylines i guess. Jamies, the Maid of Tarths, the outlaws and perhaps we will bump into Rickon?

[/span]
So which one are you guys and gals most looking foward to the resumption of...whenever that may be :(

« Last Edit: October 14, 2004, 08:26:42 AM by Pugs First Apprentice »
Logged
Please believe me when i say, this is how it has to be
This is easy on us all, well easier then other ways
Sleep is all i ask of you, sleep and not to wake again
See this through and leave my friends, tears will come and i will end.

Miranda

  • Rover
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 279
    • http://
G.R.R.M.
« Reply #57 on: October 14, 2004, 11:44:27 AM »

I desperately wated to read you post Pugsy, but as I have still 150 pages in ACOK  and complete ASOS left I will answer your question in a few weeks.

the further I come the better it gets. right now I am at the point where
Spoiler: show
Theon Greyjoy had taken Winterfell and Bran with Rickon, Osha, Hodor and the wolfes escaped

I am looking forward to all that may come my (reading) way  :smile:
Logged
[span style=\'color:blue\'][span style=\'font-size:13pt;line-height:100%\']Winter ist coming[/span][/span]

Locklear

  • Journeyer
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 33
    • http://
G.R.R.M.
« Reply #58 on: October 14, 2004, 01:39:54 PM »

Quote
Spoiler: show



Where was Robb Stark's honor to House Frey? He was betrothed to a relative of the Late Walder Frey, and what does he do?  Robb decides instead to take a Westerling as his bride.  Where's the honor in that?



[snapback]7584[/snapback]


dude! he was 16! tell me at 16 you didnt to things on a whim; that you always thought about the after effect of what you did.  come on man!
Logged
This is the worst kind of discrimination. The kind against me!

Pugs First Apprentice

  • Straggler
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 481
    • http://
G.R.R.M.
« Reply #59 on: October 15, 2004, 08:37:12 AM »

Very true Locky. Plus he relised his honour was stained, and apologised fully to the freys. I personally dont think that SPOILER [span style=\'color:white\'] death is the perfect punishment for the betrayal of the Freys...i think it was erm a tad extreme. And he wouldnt have married the lass if it wasnt for his honour. His honour dictated that he take her as his wife after he bedded her.[/span]
Logged
Please believe me when i say, this is how it has to be
This is easy on us all, well easier then other ways
Sleep is all i ask of you, sleep and not to wake again
See this through and leave my friends, tears will come and i will end.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 22   Go Up