What's happening to Honest John's?

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Author Topic: What's happening to Honest John's?  (Read 16235 times)

The Queen OF Class

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« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2007, 11:25:33 PM »

Quote from: Darkon
Aur is on the right track. Those spam threads used to be heaps of fun but with the rules and warnings it just  too much of a hassle and getting warned spoils your fun. The fact that hardly anyone spams these days is because of these rules. It's not like we got the rules because we did so little spamming/posting/sposting back in the day. (Not sure if you were already around back then) We were active, we had fun and it was noticable. Hence the rules now.

I used to love the games for their speed and information and fun to post as quickly as possible with friends in chat and try to beat each other with crazier posts. Something I have missed since the rules came.



D has it right, we loved those threads.  Anyone remeber The Duke of Krondor? He left due to all the rules, he was a big fan of the spam games.

Maybe temporarily  relax the rules and see how it goes....
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Aurian

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« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2007, 03:22:15 AM »

*Shocked that darky said im on the right track*

People come to this site because they like Mr. Feists works, the reason people stayed was because of the personality of the site. People would spend all day posting in the spam threads, or sit in chat all day just waiting for someone to say or do something stupid so it could be quoted.
Then things became stricter and people stopped posting so much, and then they just stopped coming to the hall. I dont think we will be able to go back to the way it used to be, but with those of us who stick around befriending the newbs and teaching them the way it was, it could be a fun, active forum again.


Side note to al: its been nearly a week and the thread hasnt been forgoten
« Last Edit: August 16, 2007, 03:46:41 AM by Aurian »
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zeratulcraft

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« Reply #42 on: August 16, 2007, 04:52:02 AM »

You just wait, soon as we hit a week it'll FADE like a mofo on roids.
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Snowlock

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« Reply #43 on: August 16, 2007, 11:21:50 AM »

i hope not, this is my most sucessfull thread. Im glad i wasnt the only one feeling this place was slipping.
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Val

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« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2007, 03:12:37 PM »

Quote from: Snowlock
i hope not, this is my most sucessfull thread. Im glad i wasnt the only one feeling this place was slipping.

Well put it that way, like a year or two ago, I'd spend a good portion of my free time posting on the Hall. THe last year or so, with the atmosphere somewhat slipping I've been coming in more sporadically, and have contributed to fewer threads, and I mainly came back because of the loyalty to the place, which had become a bit dull, since a bit of the fun had gone ... so anything that'll bring the atmosphere back is good.
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Nylaere

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« Reply #45 on: August 16, 2007, 04:33:26 PM »

It's also been a year since I've been here... I haven't got time to visit every day because of a demanding job, a household to run and school eating me alive...

I used to hang out every day and I'd like to comment on the "spam thread" issue going around here. I came here, posted in the spam threads and left. This felt like home to me and I considered a great lot of you as being my friends. We've had laughs and we've sure as hell had a lot of drama, but drama has to pull people closer together and it didn't. I'm sorry for that, I just recently added HoW to my favourites in Firefox again hence me lurking here every once in a while. Now as for that spam issue, I agree that we should have more of those without ridiculous rules. I loved them!! I truly did, but more than that, these foolish threads were all I had time for in my visits, after lurking and finding out they weren't as much fun as they used to be I just sorta left you guys...


So getting those back has my vote!
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Snowlock

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« Reply #46 on: August 16, 2007, 05:41:16 PM »

Also a good drunken rampage usually brightens the place up. But i wont be available for one of those till tomorrow night.
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Darkon

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« Reply #47 on: August 16, 2007, 08:35:38 PM »

Quote from: Spuduka
I probably am not the one to coment on this forum as I only come on from time to time

Dude, you're one of us, whether you like it or not!   Your opinion is appreciated.

Snowlock: Yeah you're not that bad after all.  

As for the spamthreads, perhaps we could open a poll for it and all vote?
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ButtSlappingPirate

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« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2007, 12:40:18 AM »

Hello, Gang....

I am on several different forums. I am an admin for two, and just sold off the third. The one recurring theme: Almost all of the forums are either dead or dying.

Automotive forums I visit: One of them is a Ford-Mustang-based forum. Why is it dying? No updates. The server died, the owner took over a year to get it up and running again. The forum now might get a post or two every couple of days, where before, it was probably 100-500 posts a week. The owner is lazy, doesn't want to do anything with the site (I even offered to buy the domain name), but he doesn't want to do anything with it, even with me insisting that he does, or at least let me use the keys. The others? One is kicking butt, a fun place to go to, with very little drama, and not a lot of rules, other than we have an actual 'battlefield' to allow people to go in and call each other every name in the book, or do pretty much anything else they want to in there, such as get political, insult someone else's mother, start an internet fight, you name it...but it stays in there. Everyone gets it out of their system, and are incredibly mellow because of that, unlike some of the other forums I am on, where Nazi admins are running around trying to overlegislate the forum, and tension is running rather high. It seems like where there is some relaxtion of rules (not to the point where there is pell-mell madness, and anything goes), but at least the image of not having Nazi's overregulate seems to work out really well.....
One other note? The larger sites seem to be working out pretty well....but hardly any of the older regulars are still there. Recycling is key to their survival, and allowing everyone to spam a bit helps.

Video gaming forums: All that I have any contact with are dying. One such board (Wolfgaming.net) was started as a multi-game-platform forum....kicked butt, a LOT of traffic. A mere shadow now. Nazi admins clamped down hardcore on any political mentions, or anything not towing the admin party line. I am not suggesting we get into political discussions, but even mentioning what is going on in the outside world could be considered 'political', and subject to account suspension/banishment. The forum I sold? 1000+ posts a week....now? If it gets one post a week, I would be surprised. That site was an example of what happens when you relax rules to the point, where anyone can post. I got it for almost nothing, after being banned from there....the previous owner finally realized that the guy running everything was allowing child molestor wannabe's onto the forum after I locked them out (two of these guys posted some BAD pictures on that forum, I got two people arrested afterward, friends of these two guys were still allowed to post, even though they tried to cover up what happened). Nothing from the gaming world I have seen is still going gangbusters....too many games to play, market saturation.

This site? Ray isn't producing anything. This is not a slap at Ray, there simply isn't anything to keep me excited about coming in here. I was looking forward to spending a stupid amount of money on the october release of 'Wrath'...but the release date bump has kind of put me off. I would like to see some work done on a new REF-based video game....but nothing is coming, nor is there any discussion allowed about maybe working with some of the existing games, to create a 'mod'....I am not trying to get anything for free, but maybe allowing some side mod work to be done on RTK, just to keep the existing fans coming back? One of the games I play is BF1942....we have mod tools which allow almost anyone to modify the existing game. There have been almost 100 different mods for BF1942....I have 13 on my computer....all of which didn't cost me anything, I simply downloaded them for free. Yes, EA games doesn't make any money for the games initially, but I have purchased several copies of that game because I have simply worn out the games, playing all the different mods available....which means, indirectly, someone is still making money.




Some other observations:
 There is definitely a difference bewteen how Americans and Europeans handle and police message boards. I am not smacking anyone around here, these are just things that I have seen.
1. Europeans are definitely more inclined to be hardcore admins on message boards. I don't know if it has something to do with the political nature of the countries they are from, but there is a marked difference between the two groups. Anything out of the normal scope what they consider to be 'forum material' (or poltics they are okay with) gets shot down immediately. I once posted a topic about a school shooting...4 forum members actually went to the same school....topic was locked for violating the 'no politics' rule. I didn't think it was political, considering I wasn't talking about anything political, I was simply asking if everyone was alright. However, a "Bush is a greedy bum" thread was allowed to go on forever, with the same people that shut me down participating. I don't like him either, but maybe a little consistency?

2. American admins pretty much let anything go in the forum, which sometimes allows for alot of different discussion topics, allowing for more activity for forum members, but occasionally, it can come back to bite them.

3. While the Euro guys may get pretty hardcore about what gets posted, it is kind of nice seeing the primary focus on the site and site material only.....just stick with the gaming, the books, or the cars....along with the occasional political jab (well, it's not political to them). It's hard to see the perfect Euro site, however. It almost always gets out of hand, from an enforcement view.

4. American sites? Alot of the USA sites lack the class and tact that a lot of the European sites possess. One of the Mustang sites I used to go to seemed to focus more on boobies and butts, and getting laid, plus with trashiest conversation this side of a slum lord tenement vs. what appears to be at least somewhat enlightened conversation here and on other Euro-sites. Beavis and Butthead has never died, it simply moved to some of the USA message boards.  It's the rare USA site that doesn't have a 'R' or 'X' rating, and that I can let my kids see.

5. There is almost a definite language barrier between us. I can remember someone here shutting down a RTK game thread I started.....I honestly had no clue as to what the problem was. It was suggested that I was doing something illegal/stealing from Ray/whatever, when that clearly wasn't the case, I was simply coming up with some ideas to resurrect an older game, since new game development is stalled. It took several attempts to explain what it was that I was doing, before the other party concerned finally understood what it was I was trying to do. People want new product....but when discussion was stifled , because I was misunderstood? I am not angry, considering this happened probably 2-3 years ago....but this can't be positive for long-term growth and longivity.
This occurs quite a bit, especially when you have Europeans and Americans on the same message board....while they are clearly speaking the same langauge, it's almost like there is some sort of barrier still erected, limiting the understanding ability of both sides. That, or we come from two completely different political systems, that what seems normal to Americans may appear almost alien to Europeans, and vice-versa.

More later.
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Sgt.Brody of Ironpass

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« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2007, 03:12:21 PM »

So I am of the 2nd generation. I am not of the same era as AL, Coe, Poper and the like but came in a little after. I lurked for a while before actually joing and have now been here about 3 years now. I am a Vet of this place and have had a chance to meet several of you in real life, so I would hate to see this place go. That being said.........

There is a definite vibe that HJ's is in it's death throws, I think all the posts I have read make some very spot on points. There is a definite age gap here as well, I'm in my 30's and there are not very many of us that are and even fewer that are older than me. That vast majority of new members are in that 16-20 age bracket. The majority of core members are in the early to mid 20's, with a couple of others in the late teens, (GO who drinks like he is in his 30's ). I think that sometimes puts a strain on this place, there are times where there is a lot of stupid juvie behavior in these halls. That can turn some members off, I have recently came back becuase in part I was sick of some of the childish behavior going on. I also think that this is also the reason we aren't getting anyone on the mature side to join or if they do join, stay.

I forget who brought it up but we are listed as having 1007 registered members, I bet you that not even a third are active...if that. People come by who read REF, see the site, join....then go away. Why? Well cause we don't talk much about REF as we used to...because Al is right(along with everyone else who said it) REF has dropped off in recent Novels.  OR they join and see how old our site looks (which I know is being worked on at this time....can't wait to see). OR they are just overwhelmed by the rules....I don't know this is all speculation on my part.

IMO, this place needs a major overhaul. I am not an IT guy, but I am willing to volunteer where needed. If I get the job I just applied for, I will be working regular business hours and therefore I could delegate more time to HJ's. That being said I have some time that I would be willing to give it now.

We should purge all the "dead" memberships.  Now this next one is going to be a bit radical, but maybe we should start having dues.....I know, I know. Coe, I believe it was you who said that it costs $50 USD to maintain this site, thats not so much if its split. Now maybe we can't charge a membership fee, and as HJ's stands right now I don't think anyone would pay it even if it was small. Maybe then those of us who are core to this place and want it to stay on split the cost...something to think about. Maybe we start dividing up the responsibilities. I am sure there are things that MOD's and Admins deal with that could be dealt with by others. Where as I don't know if I have the expertease like an AL or Coe to be an admin or mod, or even the time needed to do it. I would be more than happy to be someone who took the minor things off the admins plates.

Basically I just want to help...........
« Last Edit: August 17, 2007, 03:14:58 PM by Sgt.Brody of Ironpass »
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Macros The Black

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« Reply #50 on: August 17, 2007, 04:21:41 PM »

There is something I don't understand...why can't there just be a Spam Forum (or you could call it something more tactful like the "Games Forum") where posts don't count toward the post count, and we can move all the spam threads there and post as much as we like? You can do that with Invison Power Board, y'know, it's dead easy.

If the issue is storage, well....I frankly fail to see the issue. It doesn't take much space to store text at all.  I've seen far longer spam threads on a crappy little 50mb free account with IPB installed than in this place where there is surely far more space...

Brody: If you want to start charging a membership fee, methinks you can kiss 3/4 of the active members goodbye and forget about reviving the Hall. This place is a hobby, not a job.

ButtSlappingPirate: The reason BAK/RTK mod discussion is banned is because (1) it is illegal, (2) R.E.F is completely anal when it comes to fanworks, and so (3) we don't want to be shut down by him. You can guarantee he is keeping an eye on this place and there is no way he is going to let a project happen that uses his characters unless he gets paid a nice hefty licensing fee.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2007, 04:29:21 PM by Macros The Black »
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Sgt.Brody of Ironpass

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« Reply #51 on: August 17, 2007, 04:31:58 PM »

fee's is only an option, it it still wouldn't be that much....like I said it is just one of many options. Also methinks as I mentioned earlier that 3/4 of our so called members don't even visit here anymore. As for this place being a hobby not a job.....well people lose intrests in both. I still want to help and if it takes 50 of us paying a $1 a month to keep it going.....what's the big deal. I spend more than that a month on my other hobbies as it were. Anyway this thread is all about brainstorming....
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Macros The Black

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« Reply #52 on: August 17, 2007, 04:38:40 PM »

I know, I know, sorry if that came across like I was shooting you down. And note that I did say "active members"....
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Darkon

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« Reply #53 on: August 17, 2007, 06:46:49 PM »

A good donation button wouldn't hurt, we already have the martket links as well. However I don't believe this should be forced on anyone and everyone should be free whether they want to donate or not. And if they do, it might be best if such people don't get extra priveleges over others. It would only spark jealousy and arrogance.

Before killing off any dead (never posted) accounts, we might want to do a good old mass email to notify people the HoW exists.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2007, 06:49:08 PM by Darkon »
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« Reply #54 on: August 17, 2007, 07:29:31 PM »

Well, I dislike the structure of the forums quite a bit. Some change would be affected there. Pretty quick and easy to do as well. Anyway, in my head this is how things would look (you'll note i'm big on sub-forums and the like):




Board Annoucements

- Staff Updates

- Sub: Comments and Suggestions

- Sub: Contribute

<Hidden Staff Forum of Doom>


Raymond E. Feist Talk

- News



Sub: Gaming

Sub: Comics

Sub: Market Square


- Book Discussion

- Other Stuff




Sci-Fi & Fantasy

- Books/Comics

- Movies

- Sub: Gaming


Off-Topic Banter

- Just Conversation

--
Sub: Introductions Forum

- Sub: Community Portal

- Sub: Role-Playing




So, I think that'd make a decent enough lay-out with a few added tinkers/suggested things. I'd also like to add that if we cannot be allowed to add our own comments in the staff areas (hidden one aside), then perhaps we should have a comments thread about staff changes, etc.


« Last Edit: August 17, 2007, 07:33:00 PM by Great One »
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Nylaere

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« Reply #55 on: August 17, 2007, 08:31:45 PM »

I've been thinking, and I know why, after being back for such a short time, I'd leave again not coming back for several days. it's boring around here. This place is not inviting at all! There's no one online, there's really nothing to do except posting in a few spam threads, but after doing that (and as I recall it's only allowed once a day) I have nothing to do here anymore There are no interesting threads to contribute to.

You know, it's just no good anymore. Even I (being a member since 2004 and liking you all a big deal) do not have the same feeling I used to have. Some people welcomed me back warm hearted, others who'm I considered to be close to me have not so much as a brief hello to say to me. And new members aren't popping their heads around a post saying hi who are you?  What happened to the days where we'd visit once a day, tease each other a bit and just enjoyed the fact that we all liked each other?

I missed the Holland meet last year and I'm so sorry to have missed it because I've grown very fond of you all, but this place doesn't feel the same to me. It almost feel hostile, as if we just stopped caring about paying attention to one another from one day to another. And I think that's a shame, because that's what we used to be good for. We cared and we shared.

Now I read about all these silly rules and things and find out that the chat went dead after some PG13 thing which I think is ridiculous by the way, isn't this supposed to be fun instead of some weird rulestructuredbureaucracyissue? And I'm reading a thread on these bots visiting our site with people being happy that 55 guest were here, but between the lines I keep reading yeah, wish they'd post more...  So then why not all post more? Make this more inviting to others. Let's try to get people to want to be here, by not having threads on the front page that date from june 4th or whatever.

I'm sorry if this makes no sense at all and contributes very poorly to the discussion but I just wanted to speak my mind because it was nibbling on my guts.
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Val

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« Reply #56 on: August 17, 2007, 10:23:12 PM »

[!--quoteo--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]Coe, I believe it was you who said that it costs $50 USD to maintain this site, thats not so much if its split. Now maybe we can't charge a membership fee, and as HJ's stands right now I don't think anyone would pay it even if it was small. Maybe then those of us who are core to this place and want it to stay on split the cost...something to think about.[/quote]

I actually find this a sensible idea. On two of the fora I'm moderating on (Number's recently gone up to four by the way, lol ), we have donating memberships. It's like, people can choose to pay a little towards the server cost, and enjoy certain priveleges, like a hidden forum exclusive to them, increased PM storage, animated avatars, E-books on all kinds of topics, etc. etc. etc. ... so it could encourage people to contribute towards the cost.

[!--quoteo--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]There is something I don't understand...why can't there just be a Spam Forum (or you could call it something more tactful like the "Games Forum") where posts don't count toward the post count, and we can move all the spam threads there and post as much as we like? You can do that with Invison Power Board, y'know, it's dead easy.[/quote]

I agree with Maccy, that could be a good idea, and wouldn't be too hard a thing to do. Again, my experience in that is only with vBulletin, but if you say this works with IPB as well I'll just trust you.

[!--quoteo--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]I am on several different forums. I am an admin for two, and just sold off the third. The one recurring theme: Almost all of the forums are either dead or dying. [/quote]

It's all how you enforce your rules. One of the fora I am moderating on, we have 35 (!) rules, another has 18 rules, a third has nearly that - 17. As Staff, we discuss these matters if someone has broken the rules, and choose on whether we leave it at a little reminder to for example get the tone back to civil, or if we send a warning via PM ... all a matter of judgment. Now I know that I'm a bit of a Forum Nazi in as much that I can't stand it if there's duplicate threads, or if threads are in the wrong place, etc. etc. ... but I always leave people to their lives unless matters really get out of hand. It's good to have rules that are credible and enforced, but over-enforcement does indeed harm the whole thing quite a bit. Too little enforcement and the overall quality drops, too much enforcement and people'll get fed up with the forum pretty quickly.

[!--quoteo--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]This occurs quite a bit, especially when you have Europeans and Americans on the same message board....while they are clearly speaking the same langauge, it's almost like there is some sort of barrier still erected, limiting the understanding ability of both sides. That, or we come from two completely different political systems, that what seems normal to Americans may appear almost alien to Europeans, and vice-versa.[/quote]

I have observed that as well. One of the fora I moderate on allows cultural discussions, as well as political discussions. Now, there was no problem with the cultural discussions as people from America would still comment on an old German tradition and relate to the way that their grandmother did it...whatever. But once you got into the political discussions - we ended up having to limit our membership base to Europe, with the main point being, "look - as much as we may like you's, matters are totally different this side of the pond."

On fora where both are present as members, you often do get that rift, especially when matters that do deal with the political sphere rather than any cultural notions arise. Things just are very different, end of story. So, yea, well ... hard thing to get people under one umbrella there. The line between having fundamentally different opinions and not understand each other is extremely narrow, and it's a matter of luck on which side you end up.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2007, 11:25:00 PM by Val »
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« Reply #57 on: August 18, 2007, 01:17:07 AM »

Would just like to point out that we have a topic that poeple are interested in, and *shocker* its getting posted in quite regularly...
If we could just back to topics that interest people... then theyd come back and post more...
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« Reply #58 on: August 18, 2007, 04:36:56 AM »

Hey all,

Thanks for the posts so far.

The spamthreads seem to be a hot issue around here. My personal opinion on it is that it was fine in the beginning, but when some threads doubled overnight and did made an impact on previous servers we were on (not the current one though) it did became a bit of a problem. At heart this still is a Feist-fanpage, and seeing the focus slide from the subject to 'lesser' threads is a bit disheartening (although we're pretty much bound to what's happening there in/retrieved from Cali).

About turning off the postcount on certain threads: its technically not possible with the current software we're using and I'm not going to mess around on a trial and error basis in a coding language I barely know. I'll look if there are such mods in the software I'm looking at for the new forum.

It's a balancing problem: on-topic vs off-topic and regulars versus newbies (who might become scared of the "incrowd").


Things like the games were fun, but a resource-hog and didn't add anything to the core of the site in my opinion (in it being a Feist fansite). I want to balance the HoW between being the #1 Feist fansite (content-wise) and being a great community to hang out with, but with emphasis on balanced.



Some threads I'd like you to look at:
http://hallofworlds.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=2230 (New site ideas)
http://hallofworlds.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=2231 (New community ideas)
« Last Edit: August 18, 2007, 04:38:05 AM by Syrion »
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whats happening to honest johns?
« Reply #59 on: August 18, 2007, 09:57:06 AM »

Quote from: Syrion
At heart this still is a Feist-fanpage, and seeing the focus slide from the subject to 'lesser' threads is a bit disheartening.

I'm all for discussing Feist's work but there's just so much we can talk about on that topic. We could do the same thing as PAM and resurrect all the old discussion topics in the feist section of the forum, but i wonder how long it would last. I've been here for 2 years and i already have the feeling that i've seen pretty much everything there is to talk about in feist's work.. it must be even worse for the members who have been here since the old days.
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