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Author Topic: Empire Trilogy  (Read 10628 times)

real_cheeky_monkey

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« on: February 25, 2005, 12:28:31 PM »

hey,

second post... just finished reading the empire trilogy... again. just wondered what people thought janny brought to the books? anything i have read from either of the two mention that it was a proper collaboration, with pretty much equal input from both. is there a noticeably different style to the writing? if raymond had written it on his own would it have ended in the manner it did? just a thought, ignore me if im talking crap.

r_c_m
« Last Edit: February 25, 2005, 06:15:33 PM by Shifty »
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Magnus

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« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2005, 01:33:36 PM »

I know next to nothing about Janny, but Ray said that the way they made the books, neither of them could tell who wrote wat now. I dont really think that Ray would have written the books by himself, he wants to concentrate his main work on Medkemia and leave everything else for Co-writing.
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real_cheeky_monkey

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« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2005, 01:54:57 PM »

yeah, that sounds about right. there doesnt seem to be two obvious writing styles, all seems similar to all his other books(exclusively feist). his other collaborations i think have been different though, you can clearly pick out the other writers styles as feist didnt have that much to do with them???
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Captain Trenchard

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« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2005, 06:39:31 PM »

I think overall the Empire books have a LOT more descriptive detail in them, too much so at times.
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Ashen Shugar

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« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2005, 07:37:31 PM »

I think what janny brought to the books was being able to write mara I dont think ray could of written her as well, he just doesnt do the strong independent female thing....
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Bacchus

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« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2005, 10:46:29 PM »

the only thing janny managed to do, is turn the thing into girly books. but on the other hand, writing about a girl who runs a kingdom in a medieval setting IS fantasy
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Cenedra

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« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2005, 03:03:20 AM »

*pokes Baz with a sharp umbrella and tsks*

Either way, I agree that Janny probably helped in writing Mara, as Ray doesn't seem to make strong female characters the lead in his books. She probably also helped in fleshing out the world of Kelewan. Ray had always focused more on Midkemia, and only elaborated on the parts that touched Midkemia during the riftwar. He had vague ideas on the setting I think (asian-influenced, etc.), but her influence brought out the details. That's why, in my humble opinion, I think Ray has never written anything in Kelewan again, since Janny is not there anymore. They both have said officially they're not going to write anything together on Kelewan ever again... maybe cause the books were so massive and it was too much work and stress.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2005, 03:06:59 AM by Cenedra »
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chopper

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« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2005, 01:49:44 AM »

Quote
*pokes Baz with a sharp umbrella and tsks*

Either way, I agree that Janny probably helped in writing Mara, as Ray doesn't seem to make strong female characters the lead in his books. She probably also helped in fleshing out the world of Kelewan. Ray had always focused more on Midkemia, and only elaborated on the parts that touched Midkemia during the riftwar. He had vague ideas on the setting I think (asian-influenced, etc.), but her influence brought out the details. That's why, in my humble opinion, I think Ray has never written anything in Kelewan again, since Janny is not there anymore. They both have said officially they're not going to write anything together on Kelewan ever again... maybe cause the books were so massive and it was too much work and stress.
[snapback]23974[/snapback]

I will admit from the start that my wife loves it (series). So much so that two of our kids are named after characters from the trilogy.

I'm not familiar with Janny Wurts or her works either. However, hats off to the co-writing team for a great job with the trilogy and I see it as an excellent companion and a stand alone series in itself, to REF's great work with the Midkemia world.

Definitely agree on Janny's, at times greater, influence in the series esp in the 'female' character development and the "descriptive detail in them". Quite noticeable when you compare the 'size' of the first two books with MotE. The depth helped (me at least) provide a better understanding (besides the warrior race tag) on the who, why and what the Tsurani are. The 'Great Game' was one great idea..  
 
I don't think the trilogy would've been what it is if not for JW's influence. As my wife pointed out to me (after I told her about the post) check out the relationship and "love" between Kevin and Mara in SotE. You don't see much of this in the Midkemia works.  

Anyways, I've been looking forward  to the re-introduction of the Tsurani into the scheme of things. I guess I have a soft spot for the "little fellows...all in bright coloured armour." *sits waiting...waiting...waiting...waiting*


*still sitting....waiting...waiting...waiting...sighs*


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Angua

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« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2005, 02:36:14 AM »

:smile: That's pretty cool.  What are your kids called, chopper?   :smile:
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coeshaw

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« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2005, 04:10:09 AM »

I personally don't think the Empire series would have been as good if the books had been only writtern by Ray. Janny brought a womens touch to the books which I think was needed.

With regards to the ending of Mistress.
Spoiler: show
Neither author initially wanted Kevin to come back to Kelewan, it was the publisher who wanted a happy ending


FYI Kelewen will feature in the Darkwar Saga numerous times.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2005, 04:10:26 AM by coeshaw »
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Suli Abul

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« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2005, 09:33:49 AM »

Quote
FYI Kelewen will feature in the Darkwar Saga numerous times.
[snapback]24054[/snapback]

Well, hopefully anyways. It's atleast guarenteed two times. :lol:
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Great One

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« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2005, 04:14:31 AM »

The less we see of Kelewan in the Darkwar Saga the better the books will turn out IMO. Kelewan is an interesting place, but what i've read so far is enough.
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ultimate_ed

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« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2005, 05:02:36 AM »

I'm currently caught up on Janny Wurts' "Wars of Light and Shadow" epic and have also read the "Cycle of Fire" trilogy.  I pursued them becuase of her work with Feist on the Empire trilogy.

Overally, I would have to say she is a stronger writer than Ray is.  I determined that pretty early on in reading her stand alone books.  I think, though, that she has started suffering a bit of Robertn Jordanitis in her most recent Light and Shadow books in that she's gotten bogged down in detailed descriptions of things that we really don't need to keep getting reintroduced to and the story doesn't progress very far, even in a 700+ page book.

But, Jordan seemed to get his focus back with that prequel book he put out (I can't come up with the name off the top of my head).  Quite frankly, I'd love to see some more Empire books just from Janny Wurts.  She and Ray would only need to coordinate a bit on what can and can't happen to avoid intereference with the Midkemia storyline.

But, it will probably never happen.
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magical1

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« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2005, 05:58:03 AM »

I found the books good. Definitely readable. Been a while since I re-read these though. I esp enjoyed the parts about the thief, turned loyal servant to Mara (what was his name?).
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Suli Abul

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« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2005, 06:19:10 AM »

You mean Arakasi?
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magical1

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« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2005, 06:22:37 AM »

yes thats the one.
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Ellia

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« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2005, 07:09:54 AM »

I really liked the Empire series, but seriously not noticing too many changes in writing styles except the strong female character of Mara, as mentioned above. The romance and all types of houses and rules for the Game of Council were very intriguing, but not as foreign, as it was somewhat asian in style and so I understood much of what went on, and I'm sure everybody did. The alienation of it was mainly against Midkemians because it was not something they were too familiar with except it related mainly to the Hadati, and maybe very select minorities in Midkemia. Other than that, it's a system pretty much unknown to everybody else. I'm not too sure who's idea was the rules and houses in Kelewan,  but it was different from Midkemia.  Dont get the wrong idea, I really like Midkemia but the Kelewananese environment can be quite attractive and exotic compared to the familiarity of Midkemia and that makes a difference. Other than that...well that's it :P but anybody asking, I would recommend to read this series because it's a very different experience from any of the books on Midkemia.
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Force Commander Lujan

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« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2005, 08:52:07 AM »

Thats for sure, i enjoyed it. I seem to like all the politics in the series. Dont get me wrong, hand me a Action book over a biography anyday, bt i liked the subterfuge and all that in the empire series. in fact i loved it. P.S. Papewaio and Lujan rock.
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Suli Abul

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« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2005, 01:09:07 PM »

What are you talking about? It's all about Jican!!! :lol:
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The Queen OF Class

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« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2005, 01:42:13 PM »

I noticed a definite difference in comparision to just Feists work, obviously Mara, but also the language seemed a lot different - more plainer when the characters were speaking. Definitly not as Feist like as alot of the characters in Midekmia.

I thought the empire series rocked, I loved Mara, and its one of the series that i reread most often.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2005, 01:43:22 PM by The Queen OF Class »
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