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Author Topic: Nakor = Cogline = Zedd?  (Read 982 times)

Deep Taunton Cider

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Nakor = Cogline = Zedd?
« on: March 22, 2006, 10:57:24 AM »

Hi there, I have just finished reading the all the Raymond Feist books (well the riftwar-related books). Very enjoyable they were too. I started out in this genre with the obligatory Hobbit, LOTR etc then read Robert Jordan, Terry Brooks, Terry Goodkind and now Raymond Feist. In my current mood the Feist books are tying with the Terry Brooks Shannara series for top spot. Anyhoo, back to the reason for my post. Characters like Nakor seem to be one of the key elements for the fantasy genre. Whenver he appears I am reminded of Cogline (Shannara series) and Zedd (Terry Goodkind) amongst other characters. This is not a bad thing imho. I was just wondering if any other Feistfans had similar thoughts?
Cheers
Deep Taunton Cider
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Deep Taunton Cider

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Nakor = Cogline = Zedd?
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2006, 11:26:11 AM »

Oh I forgot to mention another Nakor-style character: Tom Bombadil!
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Gorath

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Nakor = Cogline = Zedd?
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2006, 12:31:41 PM »

Ok first of all 2 things: a) post ur welcome thread to tell us about yourself in The Entrance!
b) There's such a thing as the edit button!
« Last Edit: March 22, 2006, 12:33:40 PM by Gorath »
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Alrin

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Nakor = Cogline = Zedd?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2006, 12:45:36 PM »

I've been reading Feist longer than any other author save SK, so perhaps I'm a little too close to the series to make such observations about Ray's characters. That's not to say I don't understand where you're coming from. I've read each of the series you referenced and I suppose I can see the resemblence between those characters you mentioned and Nakor (the humourous old "wizard" type) but as I said originally, it's not really something I've ever mulled over before.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2006, 06:24:49 AM by Alrin »
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Zyxthior

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Nakor = Cogline = Zedd?
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2006, 09:17:11 PM »

Its an interesting observation....it seems like most 'traditional' fantasy novels have that sort of character 'archetype'.  I would say that all three share a similar 'role' in each of those novels...although if memory serves Cogline was definately the more grumpy of the two (but then again it has been YEARS since I read those Terry Brooks novels).
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Suli Abul

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Nakor = Cogline = Zedd?
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2006, 10:08:04 PM »

I havent read those others, so I wouldn't know. But I'd have to disagree over the likeness of Tom Bombadil. I'll back it up later
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Gorath

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Nakor = Cogline = Zedd?
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2006, 09:42:25 AM »

I can back you up, Sulz, Tommy wasn't a Nakor like character because he didn't care enough about the acts of mortals and.....meiers! That's the word, yes, mortals and the meier, he just doesn't care, he could destroy the ring and Sauron with a thought, but he doesn't care and he doesn't meddle.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2006, 09:43:19 AM by Gorath »
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Deep Taunton Cider

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Nakor = Cogline = Zedd?
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2006, 10:52:39 AM »

I guess the Bombadil parallel is stretching it a little. I guess the reason I mentioned him is the mysterious origin bit. The most strong resemblence I think is that of Cogline and Nakor. Both are old (hazy details or lies add to the mystery of their origin), both say they don't use magic (stuff in Nakor's case, scientific methods basically in Cogline's) and both can be a little grumpy. Both also offer a reassurring role in the books. If the main characters are in trouble, the reader is always hoping they have those guys with them to pull something out of the hat (or sack in Nakor's case). I don't remember such a character in the Robert Jordan books, but thats no surprise as in my limited experience that series is somewhat different in many aspects to the Brooks, Goodkind and Ray Feist books.
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The Squire Of Forest Deep

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Nakor = Cogline = Zedd?
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2006, 11:59:18 AM »

Well its all a part of this wonderful genre of fantasy. Its in its nature to be a bit repetitive. In fact, you could go so far as to say the entire genre of fantasy is just one big cliche. Not that I don't love it.  But yeah, most fantasy characters have equivalents in other series'. If not in personality, then in role. Beldin from The Mallorean might qualify for the Nakor role, they're definitely different characters but similar roles. Beldin is just a little more... flamboyant. Rupert Avery, Matrim Cauthon, Prince Kheldar, they're all similar. Dumbledore, Belgarath, Gandalf, Macros. The list goes on.
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Tal

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Nakor = Cogline = Zedd?
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2006, 10:57:14 AM »

As Squirrel said, a lot of fantasy books have the same kind of 'party' as it were. I'd have to agree also that most books are just part of a bigger cliche.

Aalmost every book has the ultimately wise wizard dude who's looking over everyone (Belgarath, Gandalf, Dumbledore, Macros, later Pug, to a lesser extent Obi-Wan in the original trilogy)
The weak main character who grows to be stronger, nearly dies a few doxen times then becomes the best <insert a character type here> (Pug, Garath, Eric, Frodo, Luke Skywalkerand many more)
The guy trapped in the prophecy (frodo, Aragorn, Arutha, Pug to an extent, Belgarath, the pantathians)

There are more...
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The Squire Of Forest Deep

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Nakor = Cogline = Zedd?
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2006, 02:21:33 AM »

Something I object to is that writing, particularly fantasy should have a calculated formula, like it is necessary to have each of those character classes. In eddings' book, "The Rivan Codex", which is a compendium of knowledge on the world of the belagariad and the malloreon, there is a foreword that contains a 'twelve steps to writing fantasy' guide. It has things like, 'start with a map', 'now choose your various big tough guys to protect your main character'. I really dont like this. You can tell Eddings adheres to this formula in heis work, and while I enjoyed his books, it really does affect them heavily.
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ardrhys11892

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Nakor = Cogline = Zedd?
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2006, 09:20:33 PM »

When I originally read about Nakor, the immediate thought through my mind wasn't connecting the Islaini to Cogline from Shannara as much as it was connecting him to Allanon. As mentioned above, Cogline is much too grumpy to be compared with Nakor. Allanon was more of a supporting-character-turned-protagonist throughout the original Shannara trilogy. (He had major roles in Elfstones and Wishsong.) The same thing happened with Nakor, having minor roles in the Krondor's Sons books, but being a major factor in the outcome of Serpentwar or Conclave, and appears to be doing the same with Darkwar.

As for Zeddicus, he doesn't have too much of a parallel with Nakor, or at least from what I can tell from the two books of Sword of Truth that I've read. Zedd was important from the beginning.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2006, 09:21:45 PM by ardrhys11892 »
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RiverStar33

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Nakor = Cogline = Zedd?
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2006, 01:12:06 PM »

Right now I'm reading the belgariad again. it's been ages since i read it the first time but I agree with The Squire Of Forest Deep re: macros and Belgarath, Roo and Silk but also Ce Nedra and Carline, Barak and Mecham and pug with Garion in some sense.... I've not put alot of thought into it though.
I have noticed that Eddings books are all quite similar too.
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