Honest Johns

  • September 22, 2017, 06:38:26 AM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Reverse Returning  (Read 1670 times)

coeshaw

  • World Nomad
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5.888
    • http://www.hallofworlds.net/
Reverse Returning
« on: April 30, 2005, 01:40:02 AM »

General Elf Spoilers, no specific book
Spoiler: show


Moredhel which return to Elvandar and continue as Eledhel have returned, when this happens it's called a Returning. Its not a common event only happening 8 times in the life of Tather.

I was just wondering if anyone thinks the reverse happens as well, where an Eledhel rejects the light and changes into a Moredhel (Dark One)?


Logged
"Paul, your shoe is on FIRE" Coe to Thant @ Hall Meet 2006

The Woodcutter

  • Itinerant
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 201
    • http://
Reverse Returning
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2005, 02:48:17 AM »

I would say so, but it's probably even less frequent!

Spoiler: show
From what we know of elves, they can be lured and tempted by valheru items.  So lets say an elf stumbles across a valheru artifact.  They get tempted, have the dreams.  I think they could, quite concievably, turn to the Dark Path!


That's just a guess.
Logged
"Consider this, You are the Architect of your own imprisonment." -Macros, Magician

Great One

  • Senior Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7.189
Reverse Returning
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2005, 06:19:33 AM »

Spoiler: show
In Silverthorn Galain is afraid to go to the Northlands because he would be afraid of the temptation like Woodcutter said. So I think it may be possible.
Logged

Thant

  • Hall Pilgrim
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1.694
  • your local ranger
Reverse Returning
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2005, 03:08:04 PM »

Silverthorn spoiler
Spoiler: show


In SIlverthron, it is stated that elves dont dare to enter the Moredhel place, where the Silverthorn grows and the Moredhel have their dreams of power. This is probably because they are afraid to fall for the moredhel. As stated above, Moredhel are elves corrupted byt the valheru, and therefor should still eb able to be corrupted.


 :scout:
Logged
Life sucks, buy a helmet.

Force Commander Lujan

  • Strider
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 103
    • http://
Reverse Returning
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2005, 11:26:33 AM »

Yeah, i would say its possible. Maybe its not for certain, but i dont think the eledhelwould want to take the risk anyway.
Logged
"I got soul but I'm not a soldier"- The Killers

"Talk me into losing just as long as I can win"- Billy Joel

Alrin

  • Hall Vagrant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 4.036
Reverse Returning
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2005, 11:38:19 AM »

While I won't dismiss the posibility that an elf world choose to join his dark cousins, I can't really see the Moredehel welcoming him with opening arms.
Logged
“Where words are scarce, they are seldom spent in vain.”
  —William Shakespeare, Richard II (II, i)

Force Commander Lujan

  • Strider
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 103
    • http://
Reverse Returning
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2005, 12:24:50 PM »

yeah hes more likely to become some loner or renegade
Logged
"I got soul but I'm not a soldier"- The Killers

"Talk me into losing just as long as I can win"- Billy Joel

Erik_De_Von_Loungeville

  • Strider
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 130
    • http://
Reverse Returning
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2005, 06:38:14 PM »

There is something that always bothered me when I was reading Darkness at Sethanon concerning the nature of the elves.  I don't have the time or my books to sum it up and offer it up for discussion right now, but I'll try and read a bit tonight so I can post something tomorrow.
Logged

gnome

  • Itinerant
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 151
    • http://nightshadow.co.uk
Reverse Returning
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2005, 02:12:31 AM »

interesting thread. in practicality i am sure they could turn dark. However it hasn't happened yet in the books, that we know of, and I am not sure how heavily the elves will feature in upcoming books.
Basically, there is no reason why they couldn't turn dark, except maybe protection spells by the eledhel.

Val

  • Hall Visitor
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1.306
Reverse Returning
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2005, 05:57:32 PM »

This is a very good question. I'd say it is possible, but what would it be called. Turning? :D
Logged

Great One

  • Senior Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7.189
Reverse Returning
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2005, 10:44:53 AM »

Being a dirty backstabber that's what. :D
Logged

Val

  • Hall Visitor
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1.306
Reverse Returning
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2005, 04:12:03 PM »

Quote
Being a dirty backstabber that's what. :D
[snapback]32092[/snapback]

 :D Or that way.  :D

-Val  :king:
Logged

Erik_De_Von_Loungeville

  • Strider
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 130
    • http://
Reverse Returning
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2005, 08:56:45 PM »

I finally remembered what was bothering me.  I didn't go back to read the passage I wanted to but I'm pretty sure that I'm remembering right.

[spoilers]
We know that the elves are all one race and that during the Chaos Wars, each "tribe" so to speak broke off and went their own way.  If this is true, then the Moredhel only took to the dark path at this point.  Yet when Tomas is remembering back to when Ashen Shugar was born, it is said that he was taken from his mother's womb by the Moredhel midwife.  So how can they be considered Moredhel if Ashen Shugar was born before the the Valheru rose up to challenge the gods causing the Chaos Wars?
[/spoilers] Riftwar Spoilers, Darkness at Sethanon
Logged

Thant

  • Hall Pilgrim
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1.694
  • your local ranger
Reverse Returning
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2005, 01:10:52 PM »

The answer depends on the place the elves had:

General elves spoiler
Spoiler: show


if I remember correctly:
The Moredhel were the elves that were the close servants of the Valheru, who were in contact with them every day.
The Eledhel were the foresters and servants outside the castles of the Valheru, and thus less corrupted by them.
Finally the Eldar?, the magicians, were the ones most tought in the magic of the Valheru, and thus became the grat magicians.
The Glaumeldel?, the mad elves, I dont know.


 :scout:
Logged
Life sucks, buy a helmet.

Etora

  • Rambler
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 556
    • http://myspace.com/etora
Reverse Returning
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2005, 01:47:53 PM »

elf spoiler
Spoiler: show
Elvandar is protected by the spellweavers. Those protective wards placed around elvandar would most certainly prevent the corruption of any elves in the forest itself.
The further they get from the forest the more easily corrupted they become. this would probably result in a fear of the exterior and would be a reason why so few eledhel ever leave elvandar.

..
Logged

Alrin

  • Hall Vagrant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 4.036
Reverse Returning
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2005, 01:52:46 PM »

Spoiler: show
The Glamredhel were those Eledhel and Moredhel who were driven mad during the Chaos Wars
- Glamredhel spoiler
« Last Edit: May 12, 2005, 01:54:59 PM by Alrin »
Logged
“Where words are scarce, they are seldom spent in vain.”
  —William Shakespeare, Richard II (II, i)

Nylaere

  • Rambler
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 574
  • Crazy indeed
Reverse Returning
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2005, 02:34:10 PM »

Spoiler: show
Well as we already know, Moredhel once were Eledhel, but they were driven onto darker paths by Valheru influence. It happened once, so why can't it happen again? I see it very likely that it might happen. Elves aren't that much of a saint not to be seducted by the dark side, their feelings and thoughts are related to those of the Moredhel, they share the same ancesters and therefore I think it isn't wrong to conclude that an Eledhel can easily be converted to Moredhel. Corruption can crawl into all minds, elf or non elf.


:queen:
« Last Edit: May 12, 2005, 02:34:42 PM by Nylaere »
Logged
If this be error and upon me proved,
I never writ, nor no man ever loved.

Hactar

  • Strider
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 127
    • http://
Reverse Returning
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2005, 10:19:20 PM »

I tend to disagree with most postings here.
Spoiler: show
a Moredhel comming back to join the Eledhel isn't called a returning for nothing. Eledhel could be called the 'ground state' of elf-being. The Moredhel are the Eledhel that have gone bad; as the Glamredhel are the those that have gone mad. This ofcourse doesn't mean that one of the Eledhel can not go bad or mad again; but I would regard this as something different than the other way around. Can you still follow me? :) Anyway; I consider leaving the Eledhel as of a different order than rejoining them.

general elf spoiler
« Last Edit: May 17, 2005, 10:20:09 PM by Hactar »
Logged
[span style=\'color:grey\']"Until you've been in politics you haven't been alive. It's rough and sometimes it's dirty and it's always hard work and tedious details. But it's the only sport for grownups. All other games are for kids. All of 'em." Dak Broadbent in Double Star - Robert A. Heinlein[/span]

ultimate_ed

  • Straggler
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 358
    • http://
Reverse Returning
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2005, 05:22:36 AM »

Spoiler: show

You know, being that the Moredhel became the dark brotherhood because they were closest to the influence of the Valheru, I'm halfway surprised that Tomas didn't create a corrupting influence once he took to Ashen-Shugar's armor.


General elf spoiler/speculation
Logged
------------------------------------------
[span style=\'font-family:Arial\'][span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']All the world is a Spring[/span][/span]

Hactar

  • Strider
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 127
    • http://
Reverse Returning
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2005, 11:10:35 AM »

good point. Which makes me wonder: what is it that defines an elf as corrupted? Is it that a dark elf strifes to make his former masters return? Is it the fact that they don't mix well with humans?

To make the question more general: what, in Feist's books, defines a character as evil? (apart from being opposed to the main character :)
« Last Edit: May 18, 2005, 11:11:14 AM by Hactar »
Logged
[span style=\'color:grey\']"Until you've been in politics you haven't been alive. It's rough and sometimes it's dirty and it's always hard work and tedious details. But it's the only sport for grownups. All other games are for kids. All of 'em." Dak Broadbent in Double Star - Robert A. Heinlein[/span]
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up