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Author Topic: Theological resemblance?  (Read 2622 times)

O_resentful_one

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Theological resemblance?
« on: November 21, 2004, 11:58:49 PM »

I was just thinking maybe, how many of the Gods that are mentioned can be places in one of this worlds God's decription. Like (just be strange and unsual) could Kahooli be based LOOSLY on...Budda? how many Gods can you place, for some reason I always place Ishap as Budda but i dont think its right.
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Thufir

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Theological resemblance?
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2004, 03:02:45 AM »

Kahooli based on Buddha?
Kahooli
The God of Vengeance, his priests take it upon themselves to avenge wrongdoings; at their most benevolent, they point out culprits to the King's Men, but when they are at their most malevolent, they seize weapons and go off in search of the unlucky wrongdoer, and none dare stand in their way. Kahooli is of Good alignment and is commonly known as The Howler After Fugitives and The Unraveller of Mysteries of Truth.

Eortis could be like Poseidon and Wodar-Haspur like Athena i suppose
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Edhelur

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Theological resemblance?
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2004, 05:01:01 AM »

(some of my alignments have ended up very Tolkien-ite, and are really only in Arda, but since we know that almost all fantasy authors have read and take some, even if very vague basis in Arda, and all of Tolkien's writing, I'll include them anyway)
(note II: some of the names of the Gods have escaped me, so I'll identify them as best I can. And won't go too far out on limbs... :D)

Lims-Kragma a sort of mix of Athena and Hades, perhaps? I see her as looking like Hera, but her nature, at least as far as the people and priests of the Kingdom are concerned, seems to be pretty much benevolent and yet somehow menacing...

Nameless One (agh, can't remember his name. A something....) is very Morgoth-ish. Even if Morgoth isn't exactly widely worshipped outside of the Tolkien-freak-world. A being whose very existence is evil, or at least, not necessarily evil but opposed to what we'd call good.

The Ultimate: Eru. Duh. Doesn't take much concern with the goings of one world, or even a universe entire, but.... still... just Is. as Nakor says.

Ishap, yes I'd agree he is very, very Buddha-ish. Benevolent in a sort of distant way, leads you to the "right path" (or paths in the case of Buddha).

Killian is very much, to me, like the Goddess, as worshipped by Wicca. Although really, the Goddess is every goddess that has ever been and ever will be, they are just her forms... as I see her, she is very Mother-Nature-ly. Also like Tolkien's Yavanna, the Giver of Fruit, who is also like Demeter of Greek origin.

The Keshian God of War (as in Prince of the Blood) is much like Tolkien's Tulkas Astaldo (the Valiant)-- "Greatest in strength and deeds of prowess is Tulkas... He delights in wrestling and in contests of strength; and he rides no steed, for he can outrun all things that go on feet and he is tireless...", or the Roman god, ooooo what's his name, oh yes, Mars.

That enough for you? If I could remember more Feist-gods, I'd go on... *sigh* but I'll probably be back later with another list.
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Tal

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Theological resemblance?
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2004, 09:12:34 AM »

I just felt like mentioning this....

Did you know that the Roman and Greek gods are in fact the same, just have different names?
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Great One

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Theological resemblance?
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2004, 12:51:08 PM »

Their not exactly the same. There is some that are similar, but our gods in different areas. Examples needed, yes, but i'm unable to at the moment.
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Poper

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Theological resemblance?
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2004, 01:49:02 PM »

for example, the romans had no god of chaos until they "stole" the Greek Goddess Eris, calling her Discordia.
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Great One

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Theological resemblance?
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2004, 02:15:27 PM »

Thanks for that Poper. ^^ There you go then.
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Suli Abul

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Theological resemblance?
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2004, 08:42:22 AM »

Edhelur, Morgoth wasn't even a god. There was only Iluvatar (sp?) and that is it.
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Edhelur

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Theological resemblance?
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2004, 07:29:18 AM »

Quote
Edhelur, Morgoth wasn't even a god. There was only Iluvatar (sp?) and that is it.
[snapback]13772[/snapback]

Eru, also known as Iluvatar (the One), was the only true god. But the Valar (Manwe, Varda, Ulmo, Yavanna, Aule, Nienna, Orome, Este, Mandos (truly named Namo), Vaire, Lorien (Irmo (sp?)), Vana, Tulkas Astaldo, and Nessa-- god/goddess of, respectively, wind, stars, water, nature and the green world, crafting and artisans, "the mourner", lord of forests, healer of hurts, the dead, I-can't-remember, dream, the Ever young, war ("the Valiant") and the Dancer) aren't truly gods, you're right, but they're far closer to being gods than anything else other than Eru and the Ainur.
So really, you're right. Morgoth wasn't a god. Hell, he wasn't even a Vala, but he was a fallen Ainu, and he had god-like powers. So, that's why I referred to him as having a "theological resemblance" to the Nameless One. :king:
(also. Don't change tenses... *pokes* was Iluvatar, was it. Or "is Iluvatar... is it"... *laughs* my teachers would kill me for a mistake like that....)

And back to the Greek/Roman gods thing-- really, the pantheons (I am sooo using the wrong word here but I hope you know what I mean and no poking me about it cuz I know i"m wrong....) of the two are almost identical, if you take into account the fact that half the gods of one culture are "stolen" from the other. Iris/Discordia for example.
But it's worth it to point out that the connotations each carry is very representative of the culture. For example-- Mars, and the Greek god of war (I can't remember his name). Mars was considered bright, and carried plenty of good connotations. The Greek god had crows circling him, often. Which is more just true than bad, but still interesting. Also, the fact that Athena took on the fierce and "warrior-like" qualities when it was a war that was necessary or needed a good moral, like the Trojan war, how she aided Odysseus and told him what he needed to do both when the army was going to abandon, and after he got to Ithaka. There, war was on the greek's side, or at least Homer was, so he needed, or rather oral tradition needed  a "good" god/goddess of war, and so Athena, who we can definitely call good (what with the whole Goddess of Wisdom thing) was given the role of the Goddess of War.
And yeah, I know that she often took the part other than in the Trojan war, that was just the example that came to mind.

</unintelligible ranting and recounting of myths and stories and recitation of gods.>
« Last Edit: November 25, 2004, 07:41:46 AM by Edhelur »
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Bacchus

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Theological resemblance?
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2004, 09:47:49 PM »

quite a few novels show a resemblance to the holy book. and i think (and i say this as an atheist) that the Bible is the most kick ass piece of fantasy
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sabre

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Theological resemblance?
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2004, 02:40:44 AM »

Quote
I was just thinking maybe, how many of the Gods that are mentioned can be places in one of this worlds God's decription. Like (just be strange and unsual) could Kahooli be based LOOSLY on...Budda? how many Gods can you place, for some reason I always place Ishap as Budda but i dont think its right.
[snapback]13546[/snapback]


Buddha would be closer to Sung the White.
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Lady Mara of the Acoma

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Theological resemblance?
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2004, 02:57:18 AM »

[span style=\'color:beige\']I do think this url might help some of you !
http://www.timelessmyths.com/

Mara.[/span]
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Omni

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Theological resemblance?
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2004, 11:27:24 AM »

Greek and Roman god's are only really similar now because throughout their history the two cultures inter mingled and so although they may have originally been very diferent with their god's, and then many of there gods changed or like Poper said the romans never had a god of caos originally...
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Thant

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Theological resemblance?
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2004, 12:41:57 PM »

The Romans are according to there own legends decendants from the Trojans. The trojans were nothing more then one of the mainy colonies of the greeks. Also, the greeks have kolonized large parts of Italy, long before any romans were there. There was therefor a lready a big interlink between there cultures. Also, the Romans have a legency of taking over other cultures, especially the greek culture.  The romans werent the moral and philosophical high people most people think they were, but they were just very good at things like math, and strategy, very handy in warfare. The romans didnt have real gods, as we know them now, they merely believed gods to be, non-human I think. They also believed in the power of there ancestors.

As for the gods:

Roman  <---->  Greek
Jupiter              Zeus
Neptunus          Poseidon
Mars                 Ares
Juno                 Hera
Minerva            Pallas Athena
Vulcanus          Hephaistos
Venus              Aphrodite
Cupid              Amor, Eros
Pluto                Hades
Ceres               Demeter
Diana               Artemis                        
Apollo               Apollo
Mercurius         Hermes            
Vesta               Hestia
Bacchus           Dionysis
Faunus             Pan
victoria            Nike
Saturn             Chronos


I could continue this for ages, with all the gods, and demi--gods, etc. Anyhow,m you get the idea. The roman gods almost equal the greek gods.

Now, back to topic, the feist gods:
Feist <---------> roman <-----> realm ( of the feist gods)
Abrem-Sev,  <--->Jupiter  <--->God of justice, thunder
Arch Indar,  <--->Juno?  <--->Goddes of Good
Ev-Dem, <---> ?  <--->God of odds
Graf,  <--->?  <--->God of wishes
Helbinor  <--->?  <--->Abstainer
Ishap,  <--->Chronos  <--->The god of gods
Nalar,  <--->? <--->Evil
Astalon,        <--->     Jupiter          <--->    Justice  
Banath,        <--->     Mercurius      <--->     Thieves, pranks, sailor
Dala,           <--->      Juno             <--->    Shield of the weak
Guis-wa,      <--->      Diana            <--->   God of the hunt
Kahooli,          <--->    ?                  <--->     Vengeance
Lims-Kragma,   <--->   Pluto            <--->    Death
Prandur,         <--->    Vulcanus       <--->    Fire
Ruthia,           <--->     Fortuna         <--->   Luck
Silban,            <--->     Ceres           <--->   Nature/harvest
Sung,              <--->  Apollo/venus     <---> Healing and good ( and love I think)
Tith-Onanka,     <--->  Minerva/mars  <---> War
Eortis/killian,    <--->   Neptunus         <---> The Sea
Sarig,              <--->   ?                    <--->    Magic
Wodar-Hospur,     <--->                    <--->   Knowledge
Isanda,           <--->                          <--->  ?
Onanka-Tith,    <--->   Mars/minerva   <--->  War
Drusala,          <--->    Apollo          <--->      Healing

Now, I could be wrong, but wel, the idea is simple. Its linked wit eachother. But hey, so are all more god religions, and all fantasy gods.

Before I go, My special thanx to Cenedra and Darkon, for helping me with info.

 :scout:
« Last Edit: December 04, 2004, 10:18:10 PM by Thant »
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Kenneth

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Theological resemblance?
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2004, 03:53:40 AM »

Quote
Now, back to topic, the feist gods:
Feist <---------> roman <-----> realm ( of the feist gods)
Ishap,               Chronos             The god of gods

I can't realy agree with Cronos for Ishap,
eating his children?
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WJW

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Theological resemblance?
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2004, 01:37:25 PM »

The Eating his children part of Chronos was just an Roman/Greek story, the list Thant made was about the realm of the gods, not about what they did, because, well, you can't compare that...
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Cenedra

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Theological resemblance?
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2004, 02:04:12 PM »

Quote
Before I go, My special thanx to Cenedra and Darkon, for helping me with info.

 :scout:
[snapback]14913[/snapback]

*Struts* A-huh a-huh a-huh. <---- Emperor's new Groove mimic

But yeah :lol: Thanks Thant. I've always been interested in the Greek Gods, and even made a huge chart of all of them once. Which I have LOST and am terribly mortified about.

But even so... isn't every fantasy book basing their Gods off of the old Greek/Roman/Egyptian/whatever gods? REF has seemed to have taken the basic formula rooted in most mythology, having a god for nature, a god for good, a god for evil, a god of death/underworld, a god for thieves and good luck etc. I can think of several fantasy books which worked on this system, the most prominent coming to mind being the world of Krynn in the Dragonlance Chronicles. Now the Gods in that book are VERY prominent! In REF's books I didn't pay much attention to them but it's very hard to read Dragonlance without finding out who Takhisis is.

Comparing REF's gods to the real world will take a long time, cause you could pick out any culture which has a history of multiple deities and find similaraties.

For example:

Thor ----> Jupiter ----> Zeus ----> Abrem-Sev

All Gods of thunder and justice!

And Ruthia has always reminded me of Loki for some reason...

Bah can't think anymore, brain running out of fuel this time of night. Will try to recooperate intelligence tomorrow...
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Darkon

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Theological resemblance?
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2004, 02:54:43 PM »

Quote
Before I go, My special thanx to Cenedra and Darkon, for helping me with info.

Thanks, even if I only helped with the roman/greek god stuff.

I was thinking, maybe we can make a list. Every God from Feist compared with the ones on this planet. :jester:
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Cenedra

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Theological resemblance?
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2004, 07:12:04 AM »

Quote
I was thinking, maybe we can make a list. Every God from Feist compared with the ones on this planet. :jester:
[snapback]15041[/snapback]
You're crazy :tongue: As my half-awake self stated last night, there are so many cultures with multiple-deity histories that we'd never get them all.

But hey, if you guys want to have a try, go ahead. I can give you a few cultures to start perusing: Egyptian, Norse, Greek, Roman, Aztec, Inca, India (Hinduism), Native American Indians, Aboriginal tribes (go the rainbow serpent!), African native tribes... I'm sure there's more.

Have fun :jester:
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Suli Abul

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Theological resemblance?
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2004, 07:40:11 AM »

I can't help but notice that you guys didn't put Arch-Indar up there for the Feist Gods, or Sarig, whats the go? :lol:
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