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Author Topic: Wheel of life.  (Read 1358 times)

Snowlock

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Wheel of life.
« on: July 12, 2007, 11:51:43 AM »

ok bare with me, we all know about the midkemia gods and how when a person dies they stand before lims kragma and are then judged on how they lived there lives, they are then (i guess) given another go at life.my point is that with the amount of time that has passed in feists works is it possible that some of the earlies characters who died could have 'come back?' We all know about the similarities between Arutha and Tal but what if....  tal is arutha?  I mean if you come back you must lose your memories and have a new body but what about talents and instincts? I think its worth discusing.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2007, 11:52:13 AM by Snowlock »
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Salmaneser

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Wheel of life.
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2007, 06:37:14 PM »

Do they come back? Didn't think so. When Pug and Thomas visit Lims-Kragma, they recognise old friends, like duke Borric and Roland, who are just wandering there.
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Snowlock

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Wheel of life.
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2007, 07:31:24 PM »

When kaspar is talking to (i forget the name im sorry) but he's talkling to a god who tells him that despite all he is doing he can look forwards to another turn on the wheel maybe not in a position of power but still. Im Sorry i cant be more specific but i will look up all the references over the next day or so.
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Great One

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Wheel of life.
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2007, 10:05:31 PM »

Hmm...doubt Tal is Arutha. I just can't see REF going with it.
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jazpak

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Wheel of life.
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2007, 07:48:44 PM »

There are inconsistencies.  The Tsurani and the Hadati both openly discuss the "Wheel of Life", and Lims Kragma does in fact talk about Kaspar's next go-around in life.

This would be an interesting thing to flesh out, but I agree with the Great One -- REF probably won't go in that direction.  Great idea, but then what?  Having these main characters be mortal is what gives life to the series.  

Sure, I'm sad when characters that I have grown to like die from either old age or other means, but that's how we stay interested in new characters.  By rehashing old characters, where's the growth? Arutha, a great swordsman and administrator, dies.  And is reborn.  And is a great swordsman again.
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Snowlock

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Wheel of life.
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2007, 09:20:41 PM »

I didnt mean to say that i believe tal is arutha, just that it was remotely possible. how long do you think it would take to have another turn on the wheel?
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jazpak

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Wheel of life.
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2007, 06:03:06 PM »

Hmm, well, that's an interesting question.

A tough wrinkyl to throw into that question would be to consider a phrase REF uses when describing the Chaos Wars -- "Time has no meaning because time itself is used as a weapon".  That's a tough one to grasp.

That being the case, Gods are timeless. Lims Kragma has access to all times.

So, upon the (for instance) death of Talwin, he might have proven to have lived a good life, and he comes back on the wheel as Arutha, but earlier in time.

What do you think of that??

Worse yet, what if Guy du Bas-Tyra, or someone like that, comes back as a non-human, like Ashen-Shugar?

I know, it's a messed-up thought.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2007, 06:03:28 PM by jazpak »
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Snowlock

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Wheel of life.
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2007, 07:48:23 PM »

LoL now THATS confusing. Im gonna need to think on all that.
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jazpak

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Wheel of life.
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2007, 08:16:46 PM »

Well, this whole "Wheel" thing actually hits a little home for me.  While I'm not a hugely religious person, I am a Hindu.  We believe in something similar, i.e. reincarnation.  

So, I've given this a little thought on my own, for my own personal reasons.  It stands to reason that whatever you believe, God is God -- universal and timeless.  Not constrained by time or spacial geometries.  So, if this God controlled birht/rebirth/Wheel of life, then the Spirit/Soul of a person is not bound by these either when being reincarnated.  

So, following this thought, one may go to any place, any world, any dimension, any time, following death.  Perhaps even the same place, same dimension, same world same time, same person.  That's right, perhaps you can come back on the Wheel as yourself and live that life over and over again.  How's that for a recursive, un-breakable loop?
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Salmaneser

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Wheel of life.
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2007, 07:35:34 PM »

Interesting thought.

Although I disagree with the thought that 'God' is universal and timeless.
It depends on what you mean with the term 'God' of course. When we are talking about Ishap etc., well they are certainly not universal and timeless.
When you think of 'God' as the childish universe which holds all together, that comes closer to being universal. Although I think that even that 'God' isn't timeless, he can be ended by a Big Bang, as a way of speaking, or he can be 'reborn'.

I also believe people are reincarnated (although technicaly I'm a christian). But the thought of being replaced back in time is a new and interested thought. It gives alot to think about though.
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jazpak

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Wheel of life.
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2007, 05:54:29 PM »

One of the aspects of REF's work (and I'll admit, I'm not very well-read in this genre) that really appeals to me are those scenes when Nakor rambles on and on about the nature of the universe.  While many times these discussions are rather tangential to the plot, they are interesting in their own right, especially when you think with an open mind.  Putting aside one's own belief system, "is this really possible?" is a fun question to grapple with.

The Big Bang, while still a theory, is pretty much regarded as scientific truth.  What's the analog in REF's universe?  Likely it's the event Pug, Tomas, and Macros witnessed.  But how can one reconcile the Garden of Forever?  Also, in REF's universe, were Rythar and Mythar around at that time?  Is it possible to reconcile your own personal views with what REF writes?  It's all self-indulgent, fun questions to ponder.
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Darkon

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Wheel of life.
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2007, 01:47:41 PM »

Good stuff. I don't believe that Arutha is Tal due to the Wheel of Life. Although the other way around would be a far interesting muse. Personally, I believe Feist wouldn't mind doing a "Reincarnated Hero Returns For the Final Fight" thing. Just take a look at what he did with Macros. That man can do anything. (And probably will if he thinks it'll be profitable. Can't blaim him for that, can we?   )

Very interesting this Wheel of Life and I doubt we heard the last of it. Nevertheless further speculation about who might be who is probably insane. But if anyone feels with coming up with crazy theories, I'd love to read them.

Nakor's rambling is the best though.
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spartan117

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Re: Wheel of life.
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2008, 06:39:59 AM »

it would be so freaking awesome to have Arutha back as Tal!i mean,their both master swordsmen,and they both have dark hair and eyes.it would be fantastic  to have Arutha resurected.but if it didnt happen,i would have no quarrel,because they both are my fav characters
mmmmm....mexican food :lol:
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Snowlock

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Re: Wheel of life.
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2008, 12:13:45 PM »

Knowing feist he has probably forgot he introduced the 'Wheel of life'.
He seems to forget most facts from earlier books.
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The Nameless One

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Re: Wheel of life.
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2008, 03:12:45 PM »

only your soul, your 'being' gets another life, but not your personallity and skills
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