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Author Topic: Where art thou, Macros?  (Read 1207 times)

SnruB

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Where art thou, Macros?
« on: January 01, 2006, 02:19:00 AM »

As the name suggests, do you beleive Macros the Black still lives? The plot seems to have lead to Macros dying, but are there clues in the text to lead one to beleive that Macros lives?

To fill anyone in who hasn't read Feist for a little while, or for those who want to cheat and spoil a plot:

Spoiler: show
When the demonking Maarg was preparing to come through the portal from the 5th circle, to Shila, and then through to Midkemia, Pug was attempting to close the Shila portal, and Macros/Miranda the Midkemian one. When Maarg was about to cross, Macros jumped through both portals and seemingly sacrificed himself so Pug and Miranda could close both portals. (Good ol' Hanam holding off Tugor).
Now the description in the text of Macros fighting Maarg leads one to beleive Macros is finally dead. To me, it appeared that Macros became Sarig at the last; or more correctly, had his link with Sarig reconnected. Sarig gave Macros the ability not only to kill the Demon-King, but to kill himself. This is important two-fold: If he had have lived, he would have been prey to "whatever stodd behind the demon". Also, Macros had the "curse" of not dying easily.
Back to that "whatever stood behind the demon"; remember there was that super-evil booming voice that said "I have you at last" or something? And Macros said "First you have to kill me!"? well I had the impression that was Nalar, so what stood behind Maarg might not necesarily have been a minion, but Nalar himself... But that's subject to debate.
RoaDK
Sorry for all this black!
Spoiler: show
When Pug and Miranda returned to Sorcerers Isle, they confronted Gathis on the matter, and he confirmed that it appeared Sarig had given Macros the power to sacrifice himself to destroy Maarg. Gathis also said he "knew" Macros was now dead. (They have that link, if you remember). But he's said Macros was dead or gone before, at the end of Magician.
So therefore, the possibility remains for Macros to be alive somewhere. Honest John's maybe


So some possible theories as to Macros include:

He is somewhere Gathis cannot sense him.
When Macros seemingly died, Sarig rescued him, taking him away, to, oh, lets say the Garden.
Gathis said he couldn't sense his master at the end of 'Magician', but he was indeed alive. He was just somewhere so far away from Midkemia's place in the universe that Gathis could no longer sense him.
Spoiler: show
Of course, we don't know when exactly Macros was taken to the Garden by the Enemy... It might have been about the time of the begining of 'Sethanon' or even later...
aDaS

Nalar got him! Unlikely, but too bad for Macros, eh? No wonder Gathis wouldn't be able to sense him.
Bah! Now here's a thought! Macros = Leso Varen? lol, forget I mentioned it... Ooh, but Macros might be a minion of Nalar, then Pug and Macros would have a big punch up in the next few books!

Sarig using him as an Avatar somewhere else.
Sarig couldn't give up his good ol' Macros? could he! In stead of dying, Sarig only made it look like Macros died so no one like Pug would come meddling and try to find him again. (Maybe Sarig or Macros told Gathis to say he thoguht Macros was dead). So Sarig changes the faces on the shrine to put the last nail in the coffin while he secretly has Macros scurrying around doing his business, whether it's on Midkemia or not. A little but more of a inconspicuous role for Maccy.

He became sarig. In Rage of a Demon King, Nakor theorises that when Pug ripped Macros from Sarigs mind (Like pulling a cork from a wine bottle), their link was severed. Macros had his own power obviously, and he wasnt confined only to Sarigs power and knowledge. (Albeit Macros lost alot of knowledge when the link severed - like too much water in a container that couldnt hold it anymore: it just flowed out.)
Nakor was asking Macros (Feist then contradicts himself with Nakor saying he wanted to ask Macros) that when he was become one with Sarig, did he lose his sense of himself? By this, he means, did Macros lose his sense of identity? becoming more Sarig than Macros. A possible theory for Macros is that he finally became Sarig and the mind of Macros was lost forever.
Lets apply some simple maths to it  suppose when pug pulled Mac and Sar apart, the minds were at 60%-40% in favour of Macros (i.e. Macros was still 60% himself). When Macros killed the Demon King, he became totally Sarig. Not 99%, not even 99.99999999999999...%, but 100%. Therefore, the mind body and dare I say soul of Macros ceased to exist. The knowledge of Macros' life then fed Sarig, as Nakor theorised all life does with the Ultimate. Bah, lets not get into that conversation.
To sum this argument up: Macros ceased to exist as his mind entered Sarig's and was absorbed so his experiences could be shared with Sarig. This may be the reason why Sarig chose to have multiple avitars, not relying on a single one. (Suppsoe for simplicities sake that Sarig only ever had one avatar.


Is Macros a Friday/Thursday nighters character or a Feist invention? For those of you who don't know, if you read the acknowledgments, most of them refer to the Thursday and or Friday nighters. In college, this was Feists D&D Group, and they made Midkemia and alot of the characters we see in Feists Epic. Feist wasn't necessarily the leader of this group, he just made a career out of it   But the thing about the D&D world in comparison to Feists is that the events in Magician are five HUNDRED years before the friday nighters world... Therefore, we must assume that all the works of Feists epics are leading up to this 500 year midkemia, understand me? So are all the characters from Magician to, say, the serpentwar Feists personal creations or characters the friday nighters came up with? I personally say that the friday nighters came up witht he characters anf Feist simply put them into his story 500 years before.
The relevance of this is that if Macros was a character made by the friday nighters, then he might re-appear in 400 or so years! However, Feist may have just taken him and adapted him to become Pug's teacher etc... I don't think We'll be seeing Macros in 400 years time. (I don't think Feist is young enough to write 400 more years anyway lol)


Ok, so reply ur ideas, or ur theories as to whether he's alive or dead.


Personally, those theories above were just juicy tales Feist might incorporate into his last few books. But I can't see a Macros revival... Feist is gettin' too old to write too many books, so re-introducing Macros might not a simple 2-book event. But you never know...

So my conclusion: Macros is gone.








--SnruB





PS - to those of you on the SFF forums, yes, this is pretty much copy + paste job with some editing. SFF is so inferior pfft...
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Alrin

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Where art thou, Macros?
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2006, 10:09:13 AM »

This should clear it up...
Quote
Spoiler: show
OK, how's this: Macros is dead without question. He ain't EVER coming back.
Best, R.E.F.
- Rage of a Demon King spoiler

« Last Edit: April 04, 2008, 02:01:36 PM by Alrin »
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SnruB

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Where art thou, Macros?
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2006, 09:53:29 PM »

Quote from: Alrin
Secondly: All the characters in the books (excepting the legacy and co-authored novels) are 100% Ray's creation. One of the main reasons for writing 500 years before "actual" or "game" time was to prevent any conflicts.
Fair enough

Quote from: Alrin
Finally: Ray has also stated that he'll be writing all five Riftwars. So regardless as to whether or not you think Ray is young enough to write another 350-400 years (and that number depends on how long before the Pen & Paper game the fifth Riftwar takes place), he thinks he can, and that's that.


It was just a joke man...
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The Squire Of Forest Deep

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Where art thou, Macros?
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2006, 02:39:32 PM »

hehehe. Yeah, that was a waste of time. I just read that whole thing and was about to say that I was under the impression REF said he was never coming back. i  thought i must have been wrong after i read that whole spiel, and my mind started coming up with theories etc of my own. then i read alrin's reply and all my dreams were squashed. thanbks alot. jks. lol.
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Althalus

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Where art thou, Macros?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2006, 04:25:32 AM »

I think the main question here should be where did he go when he died?

spoiler/speculation below

Spoiler: show
1:did he die and go finally to Lims Kragmas hall(sad)
            2:did nalar get him (not likely)
            3:or when he reconected with Sarig and died in a blaze of glory did he get merged for good
               with his master (my hope)
Raymond E Feist-Rage of A Demon King
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Tal

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Where art thou, Macros?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2006, 06:29:49 AM »

He may come back as of yet. There have been mentions of him, and IMO, it's merely a matter of 'when' than 'if'.


As much as I like Ray, I'm not sure he's being completely honest.
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Focus

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Where art thou, Macros?
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2006, 04:47:15 PM »

I have to wonder about that too as far as where he'd be after his sacrafice...more than likely he'd be with Sarig.  You do good work and eventually you'll be rewarded, which would be sitting along side Sarig.  He may even had done the merger and is Sarig.
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Smood

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Where art thou, Macros?
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2006, 10:11:03 PM »

Quote from: Focus
I have to wonder about that too as far as where he'd be after his sacrafice...more than likely he'd be with Sarig.  You do good work and eventually you'll be rewarded, which would be sitting along side Sarig.  He may even had done the merger and is Sarig.


Yes I still say that somehow Sarig should be lost and should be replaced by a NEW god of Magic called MACROS. Who actually is Macros. That would be great.
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The Squire Of Forest Deep

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Where art thou, Macros?
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2006, 12:16:10 PM »

Yes, that WOULD be great, but i really dobt its gonna happen. I think ray is just done with macros. and people are just going to have to accept that. as awesome as he was, he was mortal. he could be killed, and he was. thats it. end of story. characters die. im hoping he does come back somehow, whetehr he is a god or whatever, but i just dont think theres much chance of that.
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Donald the Chandler

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Where art thou, Macros?
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2007, 10:52:46 AM »

Spoiler: show
OK so as we now know Feist is a lying b*****d.    but the more interesting question is.

at what stage does Macros transport the Talnoys to the cave on Novindus?
at some point in the past? (assuming time travelling of course. hmmmmmm has anyone else noticed that strange blue box sitting in a corner of his castle on Sorcerers Isle.)  
or after he is brought back as a Dasati?
Dark Realm
« Last Edit: January 15, 2007, 10:56:39 AM by Donald the Chandler »
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Great One

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Where art thou, Macros?
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2007, 04:13:12 PM »

Spoiler: show
Macros can't remember if he left the talnoys on Novindus. He lost a lot of his memories after he died.
- IADR
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Donald the Chandler

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Where art thou, Macros?
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2007, 05:08:10 PM »

Quote from: Great One
Spoiler: show
Macros can't remember if he left the talnoys on Novindus. He lost a lot of his memories after he died.
- IADR

yeah but regardless of whether he can remember or not, i was asking when you thought he had done it?

i personally can see arguments going either way.
if he did it before then it begs the question how he knew about the Dasati in the first place. and would at the very least suggest at least some time spent on their world studying them.

i tend to prefer the other option. that he sent them after.
otherwise it throws up farrrrr to many questions about how much he really knew about stuff if he already knew ages ago that all that stuff was going to happen and transported them there way back then so it would all be ready. and of course made sure that they werent found to early during Serpent War stuff.



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rosestorm

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Where art thou, Macros?
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2007, 07:45:26 PM »

Quote from: Donald the Chandler
yeah but regardless of whether he can remember or not, i was asking when you thought he had done it?

i personally can see arguments going either way.
if he did it before then it begs the question how he knew about the Dasati in the first place. and would at the very least suggest at least some time spent on their world studying them.

i tend to prefer the other option. that he sent them after.
otherwise it throws up farrrrr to many questions about how much he really knew about stuff if he already knew ages ago that all that stuff was going to happen and transported them there way back then so it would all be ready. and of course made sure that they werent found to early during Serpent War stuff.


seeing as he knew a fair bit about rifts im guessing he was playing with his magic one day and probably byaccident as the tsurani magicians did, opened a rift there by accident or possibly after dying he went back in time, he has been there 50ish years hasnt he?but then again how fast does time travel there compared to midkemia??? or possibly someone else put the talnoy there and he simply put a ward round it? who knows there are alot of unanswered questions!!!
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